Let's speak English!

pilipili a écrit:I spent 6 months in NZ three years ago

Where about in NZ?

Mostly post-earthquake Christchurch (I did a research internship at University of Canterbury), but I also travelled around to visit (almost) the whole country

Why ? Do you know NZ ^^ ?

I've lived for four years in Wellington, mate.
Back in France since 5 years.

Oh ! Why there ? (and why back ? )

NZ is insanely far away from everything, that is the only reason I didn't even consider accepting any long-term job proposal there. That's a shame because I left a couple of friends down under, but I couldn't imagine being 38h away from all the friends I have up here I still have mixed feelings about this decision, I must admit *sigh*

pilipili a écrit:Oh ! Why there ? (and why back ? )

Answers there: https://www.zebrascrossing.net/t21311-retour-d-expatriation#948433

After four years over there, you end up with more friends in NZ than in France, dude.
We made a "little party" when we left to say goodbye to all our beloved friends. We invited 140 people! Only close friends.

Silwilhith a écrit:Well, I think it's not just that. It means you've started to, say, open your mind to a new way of thinking.
If you think in English just because you translate your French mind, that's not really a gain.
But, considering that native English speakers (I mean Anglo-American people) have a different way of considering situations because they have a different set of words and different centers of interest and points of views, if you really start thinking in English, you're approaching their way of thinking.

I understand very well what you mean. Most of the time I think in English effortlessly, that's why I don't believe that I'm just translating my French mind I've also difficulties to translate most of my words, it's more about instinct. Sometimes I can't explain it. There's actually a "dimension", an aspect behind words and expressions that I don't find in their usual equivalents in French. It's a whole different universe. A parallel one I suppose.

morganw a écrit:However I'd say that you can only develop that skill in an english-speaking environment.

I'm obviously aware that having an english-speaking environment helps, but I also think that reading/listening a lot of english can develop that skill a little, even if we're not directly in this kind of environment.

Again, sorry if I've made mistakes.

Rather than talking of "environment" or "reading/writing", I'd say that exchanging with (Anglo-American) people changes progressively your mindset.
And this is because you use different words, expressions, points of views, that don't have their common equivalent in France.

If I say for example that people in France don't pick up the poo of their dogs on the walkway, French people smile, Anglos are upset.
If I say that Anglos behave like if they were loving their neighbors, Anglos appreciate me a lot, and the French think it's bullshit.

I see. Then it's more about the mentality than the language itself?

Silwilhith a écrit:
Answers there: https://www.zebrascrossing.net/t21311-retour-d-expatriation#948433

Wow. Your experience sounds great and a bit sad in the same time  
I hope you don't regret taking both of these decisions now !

Silwilhith a écrit:
Rather than talking of "environment" or "reading/writing", I'd say that exchanging with (Anglo-American) people changes progressively your mindset.
And this is because you use different words, expressions, points of views, that don't have their common equivalent in France.

I think we have to keep in mind the difference between culture and language (even though they do influence each other). What you describe is a change in culture, and it happens when one is close to somebody with another culture, whatever the language they use to communicate (e.g. the French and french-speaking Canadians). It is different from a change in "thinking language", that occurs when one communicates (in an active or passive way) using a language different from their mothertongue.

If I exchange with German colleagues in English, all of us will tend to think in English but keep our mindset almost unchanged. (I may even start to see things the German way rather than the English way... )


(And could anybody correct me if my capitals are misplaced, please ? I've never been good at those typo-nazi things )

Hum sorry then, that wasn't my point at all. I do give importance to proper use of capitals both in English (that's why I ask for help and correction) and in French (that's why I call myself a typo-nazi too when "necessary").
My sentence was by no way meant to be offensive toward...well people as picky as I am ^^'.

It seems like I felt into the not-your-mothertongue humour trap, my bad !

Anyway, I'd be happy to have your advice on my use of capitals especially if it is not good !

Actually the thing you misplace are question marks and exclamation points.
Unlike French, in English there is no space between the word and the mark.

i.e.: I like chips! but not I like chips !

For English punctuation, I recommend the excellent book "(The panda) Eats, Shoots & Leaves" from Lynne Truss.

hai guise! can I join plz? just got sum bad remarks bout mai writing in english here and therr on the board. they say im doing it on purpoz to impress them. like i wan 2 dominaite them. wat. why would i do that! The thing is I dont alwaz realize im doing it b/c english s been like my momtongue 4 as lon as I can rememberr! with french! but i prefer english i think its such a beautiful langague an so much eazser. i dream, thnik, spek, writ, in both langages! yes sir! i like it that way. it helps me a lot in saying exactly wat i wan to say the way i wan 2 say it. i ve started laernin MANDARIN 2!! so excited! its so pretty! i liek it al ready! anywayz sumtaimes the french word is the 1 im looking for, sometimes its the englsh one. sometimes i feel its easier to speak english. but my writing in english is awful as u can see. *cries in corner* did i make any mistak professor sil? im so sorry, ill mak better next tiem. anywayz cya guise! nice to meet u all! carpe deim

Silwilhith a écrit:

Hetaepsilon a écrit:

Zufall a écrit:(...) I think very often in English, and I also write some stories... Well.(...)

Hey! Someone told me that when you're starting thinking in English, it's that you've got a nice level then!

Well, I think it's not just that. It means you've started to, say, open your mind to a new way of thinking.
If you think in English just because you translate your French mind, that's not really a gain.
But, considering that native English speakers (I mean Anglo-American people) have a different way of considering situations because they have a different set of words and different centers of interest and points of views, if you really start thinking in English, you're approaching their way of thinking.

I know it's a bit hard to understand but it becomes clear when you study and observe foreign cultures.

I understand this because it's the way I was thinking what I have written before ^^

morganw a écrit:
20, lives in Cergy and Rouen... can only be a student . What do you study?
It takes some time to think in english, but if you wanna be spontaneous you can't always translate your thoughts. However I'd say that you can only develop that skill in an english-speaking environment.

Great deduction! Congratulation! ^^ Actually I'm *en première année prépa ingénieur en bio-industries*
I'm already doing this, and even sometimes, I dream in English or German :3

Hetaepsilon a écrit:

Silwilhith a écrit:

Hetaepsilon a écrit:

Zufall a écrit:(...) I think very often in English, and I also write some stories... Well.(...)

Hey! Someone told me that when you're starting thinking in English, it's that you've got a nice level then!

Well, I think it's not just that. It means you've started to, say, open your mind to a new way of thinking.
If you think in English just because you translate your French mind, that's not really a gain.
But, considering that native English speakers (I mean Anglo-American people) have a different way of considering situations because they have a different set of words and different centers of interest and points of views, if you really start thinking in English, you're approaching their way of thinking.

I know it's a bit hard to understand but it becomes clear when you study and observe foreign cultures.

I understand this because it's the way I was thinking what I have written before ^^

morganw a écrit:
20, lives in Cergy and Rouen... can only be a student . What do you study?
It takes some time to think in english, but if you wanna be spontaneous you can't always translate your thoughts. However I'd say that you can only develop that skill in an english-speaking environment.

Great deduction! Congratulation! ^^ Actually I'm *en première année prépa ingénieur en bio-industries*
I'm already doing this, and even sometimes, I dream in English or German :3

Interesting. Not sure what bio-industry is, pardon my ignorance. Dreaming in German must be quite funny.
Princeton, I want to start learning mandarin too, looks so difficult though! But as a Chinese medicine student I feel that it would really help me.

morganw a écrit:Princeton, I want to start learning mandarin too, looks so difficult though! But as a Chinese medicine student I feel that it would really help me.

I don't think it's that difficult! Let's do it together! I think the hardest thing to learn is probably the four spoken tones. I started with the hans, the ideograms, the written Mandarin. They're really pretty so I like learning about them. But I can't write a thing yet. They look awesome on my book, but every time I try to copy them, they look like absolute horrific shit. Haha. I guess it takes time. It's funny how they make the words, by putting simple elements, simple words together. That's the way they get a new word. To say happiness for instance, they combine the word woman and the word child. Computer is the combination of the word brain and the word electric. As for the word kangaroo, it's big rat and pocket, if I remember correctly. I think it's nice. I'm still learning about those basic elements.

Princeton a écrit:

morganw a écrit:Princeton, I want to start learning mandarin too, looks so difficult though! But as a Chinese medicine student I feel that it would really help me.

I don't think it's that difficult! Let's do it together! I think the hardest thing to learn is probably the four spoken tones. I started with the hans, the ideograms, the written Mandarin. They're really pretty so I like learning about them. But I can't write a thing yet. They look awesome on my book, but every time I try to copy them, they look like absolute horrific shit. Haha. I guess it takes time. It's funny how they make the words, by putting simple elements, simple words together. That's the way they get a new word. To say happiness for instance, they combine the word woman and the word child. And computer is the word brain and the word electric. As for the word kangaroo, it's big rat and pocket if I remember correctly. I think it's nice. I'm still learning about those basic elements.

Haven't really started anything yet, how do you study? On your own? The Confucius Institute in Paris looks like a good option IMO.
Yeah the four tones are such a mess. Another funny story (not mine):


“Weishengjin,” I said, beaming I remembered the word for napkin.
She turned and looked at me and [much to my dismay] so did everyone else in the restaurant. I looked around, considered the reason they were looking at me was probably because my Chinese was just THAT GOOD, and continued. “Mafan ni dai wo weishengjin.” Could I trouble you to bring me some napkins?
The tiny woman’s cheeks flushed and she stated they did not have any wei-sheng-jin. Silence fell on the crowded restaurant. Each pair of eyes stayed on my nervous waiguoren self. I knew my pronunciation wasn’t perfect, but come on…can a girl get some napkins?
Then laughter started and I grew frustrated: “Weishenme ni pian waiguoren? Ni kending you weishengjin! Zhi shi fanguan!” Why are you messing with a foreigner? You definitely have napkins! This is a restaurant!
The waitress froze and laughter erupted rising like the billowing cigarette smoke and steam from the boiling water in the middle of the tables. It wasn’t until much later…not seconds, not hours, but days later…when my Chinese friend told me just why they were laughing. I had demanded [in a loud voice] the waitress bring me menstrual pads.

Hahaha nice. These misunderstandings must be fairly common at the beginning. I have another joke, much less subtle, but here I go:

I asked a Chinese girl for her number.
She replied, "Sex! Sex! Sex! Free sex tonight!"
I said, "Wow!"
Then her friend said, "She means 6663629."

I bought a few books (particularly one that I find really beautifully made, it's called "le chinois c'est pas sorcier" by a woman named Shaolan), and I read them when I feel like it, although I haven't felt like it in weeks, to my dismay. I've been doing other things. It's often like that, I switch interests very quickly, it's referred to as being a "scanner profile" (I know it's a poor excuse...). But I intend to go back to studying it soon. I'd say it's impossible to learn a language such as Chinese if you don't commit to it at least once a week. I also considered going to classes at INALCO.

Silwilhith > Thanks for the punctuation tip! I know it, but I always forget to use it T_T

Morganw & Princeton > Oh, I also had this kind of trouble with accents the first time a kiwi told me something that sounded like "you know, I love huge dicks, they're great for children to play on it. I built one in my backyard last summer, best idea I've ever had!". Took me a while to realize what he was thinking of was a deck.

Chinese tones are completely impossible to get when you're not used to them. A Chinese friend of mine tried to make me hear the difference, but I never could.... therefore, I've stopped laughing at English speakers who can't hear the difference in "La russe rousse" xD

Hahaha I would have been so embarrassed if I'd heard that. I would have probably smiled politely though, while thinking the guy's a creep and wondering how to get the hell away asap. But I think I'd be embarrassed if anyone told me that bluntly that they loved huge dicks, if that's what they really intended to say of course, although I see no shame in that. I wouldn't go as far as building one though. Haha. Anyway... Yes, Chinese tones! They're so difficult (except the first one maybe, it's the easy one). From afar, Chinese still sounds pretty much like gibberish to me. Well, I see no reason to be discouraged. It'll get better in time.

Princeton a écrit:hai guise! can I join plz? just got sum bad remarks bout mai writing in english here and therr on the board. they say im doing it on purpoz to impress them. like i wan 2 dominaite them. wat. why would i do that! The thing is I dont alwaz realize im doing it b/c english s been like my momtongue 4 as lon as I can rememberr! with french! but i prefer english i think its such a beautiful langague an so much eazser. i dream, thnik, spek, writ, in both langages! yes sir! i like it that way. it helps me a lot in saying exactly wat i wan to say the way i wan 2 say it. i ve started laernin MANDARIN 2!! so excited! its so pretty! i liek it al ready! anywayz sumtaimes the french word is the 1 im looking for, sometimes its the englsh one. sometimes i feel its easier to speak english. but my writing in english is awful as u can see. *cries in corner* did i make any mistak professor sil? im so sorry, ill mak better next tiem. anywayz cya guise! nice to meet u all! carpe deim

Have some Eastern Europe language roots?

If you want a glimpse at the accent I'm much used to:


And a bit more serious talk on this topic:

Silwilhith a écrit:If you want a glimpse at the accent I'm much used to

Hahaha it sounds funny, to say the least. I don't think I've ever heard anything like it. New Zealand looks like such a beautiful country though, I wish I had gone there during my backpacking trip a year ago. It's too bad it's so far away from everything. I heard it's pretty expensive as well, so I probably wouldn't have been able to afford the trip anyway.

Have you guys read Stoner, by John Edward Williams? It's one of my favorite books. The writing is, in my opinion, close to perfection, every word falls in the right place, it's almost like prose poetry. It's probably the best novel I've ever read by an English author! Here are a few quotes I like:

“The love of literature, of language, of the mystery of the mind and heart showing themselves in the minute, strange, and unexpected combinations of letters and words, in the blackest and coldest print—the love which he had hidden as if it were illicit and dangerous, he began to display, tentatively at first, and then boldly, and then proudly.”

“A kind of joy came upon him, as if borne in on a summer breeze. He dimly recalled that he had been thinking of failure--as if it mattered. It seemed to him now that such thoughts were mean, unworthy of what his life had been. Dim presences gathered at the edge of his consciousness; he could not see them, but he knew that they were there, gathering their forces toward a kind of palpability he could not see or hear. He was approaching them, he knew; but there was no need to hurry. He could ignore them if he wished; he had all the time there was.
There was a softness around him, and a languor crept upon his limbs. A sense of his own identity came upon him with a sudden force, and he felt the power of it. He was himself, and he knew what he had been.”

And this is my favorite one:

“In his extreme youth Stoner had thought of love as an absolute state of being to which, if one were lucky, one might find access; in his maturity he had decided it was the heaven of a false religion, toward which one ought to gaze with an amused disbelief, a gently familiar contempt, and an embarrassed nostalgia. Now in his middle age he began to know that it was neither a state of grace nor an illusion; he saw it as a human act of becoming, a condition that was invented and modified moment by moment and day by day, by the will and the intelligence and the heart.”

And here's a list a few other English lit books I love:

• The Catcher in the Rye, JD Salinger
  
  
• To Kill a Mockingbird, Harper Lee
  
  
• The Perks of being a Wallflower, Stephen Chbosky
  
  
• The Book Thief, Markus Zusak (he's an Australian author!)
  
  
• The Art of Fielding, Chad Harbach
  

I used to never finish a book so I stopped buying them.

I like buying books even if I don't read them immediately! I save them for later! I can spend hours at second-hand bookshops, just looking at all the titles and authors and browsing through the books I find interesting, pondering whether I'm going to buy them or not, which I do of course. I have so many books, three bookcases full of books, and I'm going on four, which reminds me of this quote I like about book lovers:

“She herself was a victim of that lust for books which rages in the breast like a demon, and which cannot be stilled save by the frequent and plentiful acquisition of books. This passion is more common, and more powerful, than most people suppose. Book lovers are thought by unbookish people to be gentle and unworldly, and perhaps a few of them are so. But there are others who will lie and scheme and steal to get books as wildly and unconscionably as the dope-taker in pursuit of his drug. They may not want the books to read immediately, or at all; they want them to possess, to range on their shelves, to have at command. They want books as a Turk is thought to want concubines — not to be hastily deflowered, but to be kept at their master’s call, and enjoyed more often in thought than in reality.”

― Robertson Davies, Tempest-Tost

How to speak to God:
http://foto.krabjiem.lv/bernu-vestules-dievam/12998/

Princeton a écrit:I like buying books even if I don't read them immediately! I save them for later! I can spend hours at second-hand bookshops, just looking at all the titles and authors and browsing through the books I find interesting, pondering whether I'm going to buy them or not, which I do of course. I have so many books, three bookcases full of books, and I'm going on four, which reminds me of this quote I like about book lovers:

“She herself was a victim of that lust for books which rages in the breast like a demon, and which cannot be stilled save by the frequent and plentiful acquisition of books. This passion is more common, and more powerful, than most people suppose. Book lovers are thought by unbookish people to be gentle and unworldly, and perhaps a few of them are so. But there are others who will lie and scheme and steal to get books as wildly and unconscionably as the dope-taker in pursuit of his drug. They may not want the books to read immediately, or at all; they want them to possess, to range on their shelves, to have at command. They want books as a Turk is thought to want concubines — not to be hastily deflowered, but to be kept at their master’s call, and enjoyed more often in thought than in reality.”

― Robertson Davies, Tempest-Tost

I love books too, but I always read the books I've bought. There are so many bookshops in Paris, yummy, second-hand bookshops are amazing, the books are so cheap that you don't feel guilty spending money. Second-hand books are so cute, with their annotations and highlighted parts.

"Second hand books are wild books, homeless books; they have come together in vast flocks of variegated feather, and have a charm which the domesticated volumes…lack."
– Virginia Woolf

Hello everybody

Maritzanka a écrit:Hello everybody

Hi Maritzanka

Hello Morganw How long have you been learning English ?

Maritzanka a écrit:Hello Morganw How long have you been learning English ?

7 years at school, one year in Ireland. You?

6 years at school, including 3 years I really improved by myself my level, and I will soon speak English during a month in Norway !

Maritzanka a écrit:6 years at school, including 3 years I really improved by myself my level, and I will soon speak English during a month in Norway !

Great stuff, why Norway?

I have a penpal there, who will then come in my house during a month

Maritzanka a écrit:I have a penpal there, who will then come in my house during a month

I'm sure you'll have a great time there. I have an Ukrainian penpal too. I really enjoy having friends from all over the world; it opens my mind.

It's the same for me

I have to agree, this idea of creating a post for english speakers is just marvelous. ^^

I've always suffered from the lack of english interlocuters since I arrived in France several years ago.

I've been bathing in the english language since I'm ten as I lived in Canada and english classes were mandatory and at the earliest years possible.

Now back to my homecountry (France), I see that the status of being "bilingual" is actually very subective. I try to define myself as a bilingual speaker, but the more I learn, the more I realize I have plenty to learn and improve. Anyway I hope a little that this post will give me a perfect purpose to practice a little.

Cheers.

Being bilingual is when you are native in both languages thus it's extremely rare but you can be fluent in many languages without being a native speaker.

Hugues a écrit:Being bilingual is when you are native in both languages thus it's extremely rare but you can be fluent in many languages without being a native speaker.

Well, there is a few million people who are "native bilingual" French-Arab in France... I wouldn't call it 'rare', especially in low-class suburbs...
Have you noticed how these people, though having parents speaking Arab at home, are much more fluent in French?
The French is their 'base language'. Learnt from preschool.
The story about "mother tongue" is just bullshit.

I was thinking English-French there is a lot of french speaking english and learnt in a foreign country or at school, I don't think bilingual is more frequent.

Hugues a écrit:I was thinking English-French there is a lot of french speaking english and learnt in a foreign country or at school, I don't think bilingual is more frequent.  

Not in Québec. Montreal for example is full of bilingual English-French people.

Abonné absent a écrit:Not in Québec. Montreal for example is full of bilingual English-French people.

I have lived in Montreal for twenty years and this bilingualism is much more rarer than what we can believe. I experienced that there is actually a gap between francophones and anglophones. Plus the Quebecois have their own patois named "joual" that cannot be classified as french.

Hello people

I've just found about this English thread. Great idea. I'll be around.

Hey everyone! I've studied English at school, then at University.got my Licence d'anglais.but it's loneliness and the impossibility to connect with French people that made me write in English with people all around the world.I became bilingual and find soul sisters/brothers this way.
I escape the hell of my life this way. I hardly spoke French for years, I was writing blogs in English, everything was in English.I also ended up creating a facebook page, where I mostly wrote in English.With time I made peace with my mother tongue, made friends in my country...did not last much though.I still write in English a lot( poetry, songs) it's still a place where I feel home.I don't know, it's a different part of me.
Once I went to a OVS meeting " let's speak English" it was a nightmare for me( social phobia Yay!)but it was very interesting to dare, the thrill of the challenge towards me, facing my damn fear! fear of what? fear of fear? fear of feeling bored? insecure?unable to connect?
oh well. I just went there twice, and the way a man treat me annoyed me and I felt" come on, will I forever let people talk to me this condescendant way just because I am different?screw them! I am fine with me. I made peace with the way I am.
And I am still making peace.

NIN59 a écrit:Once I went to a OVS meeting

I suggest you should try a ZC IRL. I think you'll be less disappointed.
Although sometimes you get good surprises with OVS. But not very often.

Abonné absent a écrit:

NIN59 a écrit:Once I went to a OVS meeting

I suggest you should try a ZC IRL. I think you'll be less disappointed.
Although sometimes you get good surprises with OVS. But not very often.

I'll be thinking about that but not sure it's my thing.
meeting many people at the same time is not for me, we'll see.
That could be a great change to feel " at home" with a crowd of people who can relate.

Hello NIN59
The good things about IRLs as far as could experience (just once) is that they give you a chance to meet one or two people out of a whole series with whom you may really get along well with.
This is what happened to me. I talked a lot with two people whom I had tons of things to exchange with.
It would normally have taken me a decade to meet two people who really resembled me and made me feel great, so I think this makes it worth trying, knowing that, as ever, one should not expect too much of life (this is my motto).

I would be happy to speak english with you because I need to practise, just for fun ! Have you ever go to Shakespeare and company book-shop ?

Liblue a écrit:Have you ever go to Shakespeare and company book-shop ?

Have you ever gone ! Yeah, I've been to that bookshop but I've never actually bought anything there...